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Post by Clive A on Apr 17, 2014 2:17:58 GMT
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Post by Recycled Rock Chick on Apr 17, 2014 14:25:52 GMT
That was interesting Clive. I had always thought that there was a coil of wire around each magnet for each string, I didn't realise there was just one piece wrapped around them all. My thinking behind this was that many years ago I had a Rhodes 73 stage piano and when each key was played it vibrated a tine against an individual pickup which was a magnet with a coil of wire wrapped around it so I just assumed guitar pickups were made in the same way. Thanks for broadening my education, it obviously badly needs it
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Post by Clive A on Apr 17, 2014 15:02:45 GMT
I'm pleased that you found it both informative and interesting Sandra.
We're learning all the time eh!
Rgds - Clive
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Post by Recycled Rock Chick on Apr 17, 2014 16:26:28 GMT
If you don't learn something every day then life's not really worth living Clive, and it looks like I have a lot of learning to do yet, so I just hope I can manage to live long enough to learn it all
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 23:44:28 GMT
nice one clive enjoyed it very interesting
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 7:59:22 GMT
Gladly, we will never know it ALL Sandra. I think it would be a boring life if we did and, had no room to enjoy the experience of learning.
Regards Roger
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 14, 2014 11:57:45 GMT
Awwhh Clive, you had me going there, I thought you had gone into pickup winding - Clive Ybarra!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 12:15:29 GMT
I would love to hand whined a set of pick ups should take about 2 years doing and hour a day without a machine/
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 14, 2014 12:21:25 GMT
I would love to hand whined a set of pick ups should take about 2 years doing and hour a day without a machine/ I have heard of people using an electric drill for this purpose but you have no way of knowing how many turns you have made, also it would be sods law that the winding wire would break on the last leg as it's likened to the thickness of hair & very fragile.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 12:48:50 GMT
I would love to hand whined a set of pick ups should take about 2 years doing and hour a day without a machine/ I have heard of people using an electric drill for this purpose but you have no way of knowing how many turns you have made, also it would be sods law that the winding wire would break on the last leg as it's likened to the thickness of hair & very fragile. its between 6 and thousand its between 6 and 8 thousand depending on what vintage your trying to copy
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Post by Recycled Rock Chick on Nov 14, 2014 13:18:28 GMT
I may be being a bit thick here, so whats new, but what is the advantage of hand wound ones over mechanically wound ones ? I would have thought that you would just work out the resistance for a given length of any gauge of wire to get the correct value you desired then set a machine to accurately wind it probably neater than you could do it manually, especially with modern machines with the strain gauges and other sensors available today. When I worked at Lucas Electrical, I used to watch in amazement at the machines winding coils for various solenoids with very fine copper wire at breakneck speed, doing maybe as many as 24 at the same time with massive drums of copper wire feeding them. So modern machines will probably be even faster and better than those were some 30 years or more ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 13:31:10 GMT
that's the easy way Sandra no fun in that winding a pick up in 30 seconds ,
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 14, 2014 14:07:31 GMT
its between 6 and 8 thousand depending on what vintage your trying to copy Hi Dave Try counting the turns with a drill Hi Sandra Hand wound are better if the builder knows his stuff, there are many variables to consider & neatness is not looked on as a good wind. This is why Abigail Ybarra pickups were & still are sought after as she had her own unique way of winding.
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Post by twang46 on Nov 14, 2014 16:27:33 GMT
OK guys............. Here we go with the "hand wound is king nonsense" for pickups. SOME vintage pickups are revered for the tone dynamics etc.. but not all of them are good Hand wound introduces all sorts of inconsistency's into the windings which means that they are all slightly different Things to think of amongst many things are Wire tension....is it stretched in places? Consistency of placement........now fondly referred to as "scatter wound" Gaps in the windings as the wire does not fit exactly to the next without any air gaps (air gaps affect inductance amongst other things) Number of turns may vary Smoke & mirrors & mystic references Abigail that Ted referred to has been winding pickups for Fender for around 50 years & even now still winds some runs of pickups to satisfy demand Many famous guitar pickups have been reverse engineered to try & discover the secret of the "sound" & while the construction methods & materials can be easily replicated the windings are not so easy to replicate because of the random nature of the windings. To give 1 example, copper has changed in the last 50 years it really isn't what it used to be literally it would be shockingly expensive to try & replicate correctly the copper wire & shellac insulator/coating used back then Remember Hank recorded tunes like "Apache" on a new standard Fender strat model fitted with brand new pickups, not 60 year old vintage pickups fitted to a lump of wood that has been drying out for 60 years or so with dodgy old pots & switches. Is a 2014 C.N.C. machine constructed pickup better sounding than a 1959 Strat with it's original pickups ? almost certainly not, but only because there are loads of other factors to take into account apart from the simple electrical measurements. For example the wood the guitar is made of can & does change the "sound" etc, etc. The debate is never ending Modern machines give consistently repeatable results.............the Squire CV strats are proof of that, universally approved of for their "sound" at a low price no hand wound pickups used in their construction. So................... Dick stands back shrugs, looks for a tin hat to help him dodge the flack that may be coming his way. The wanders off stage left, looking for a nice cool Vodka & coke
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 14, 2014 22:18:57 GMT
Hi Dick As I posted 'Hand wound are better if the builder knows his stuff' my meaning being, I've dealt with quite a few small private builders, some are so so, others are quite impressive. The differences between many pickups is not huge but there are differences. I have 2 CV strats, whereas the supplied pickups for the price are good quality & you can get a good sound out of them, I have replaced them both with custom pickups which definitely are an improvement over the stock pickups. I do seem to remember we've been here before on this subject?
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Post by Recycled Rock Chick on Nov 15, 2014 4:25:55 GMT
I do seem to remember we've been here before on this subject? I dont remember Ted, but in any case I blame Dick
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 15, 2014 11:55:43 GMT
I do seem to remember we've been here before on this subject? I dont remember Ted, but in any case I blame Dick Yep, lets blame Dick The problem with discussions like this is, if you were to take the time to write in detail what you actually mean to say, the post becomes so long nobody reads it fully. If you try to cut corners by writing less words, then the content of your post is misunderstood. You then get a whole series of posts going too & thro trying to explain what you actually mean. In the end you both realise you hold exactly the same viewpoint so the whole exercise was pointless. The end result - You both wish you hadn't bothered posting your view in the first place!
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Post by twang46 on Nov 15, 2014 15:57:20 GMT
You might just be right here Ted I've got pages & pages of "reasons" for & against "hand" wound pickups but as you point out Ted people will go to sleep after about page 23 just as I would be getting into my stride about the effect of inductance upon the hysteresis loops formed by reaction of spirit based shellac with.......... It is really interesting you know Dick
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 16, 2014 13:36:42 GMT
I agree Dick I've researched a lot about it myself & it's not just about buying a kit from Axesrus & winding a bit of wire around the poles. Even more precise modern manufacturing techniques used to produce winding wire will have an affect on the end result. Nope, not going to discuss this, so stop it!
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Post by twang46 on Nov 16, 2014 16:23:24 GMT
OK Ted Last word.............honest Modern manufacturing methods will enable a manufacturer to knock out hundreds or even thousands of consistently exact pups if they can find/make a repeatable prototype That is the huge benefit automation can bring Dick................
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 16, 2014 19:14:54 GMT
Yep, agreed! That should finish it!
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Post by Recycled Rock Chick on Nov 16, 2014 19:33:27 GMT
Yep, agreed! That should finish it! Oh no it won't
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 19:59:26 GMT
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Post by twang46 on Nov 16, 2014 21:00:05 GMT
Interesting link Dave, but nothing new to me though There's far to much nonsense spouted about pick ups (& transformers for that matter) & as long as people fall for it & buy them, the "specialist" manufactures will keep on buying in the "snake oil & mirrors" This is your fault now Sandra Dick. ps...............Thanks for the pick up housing offer Dave, I haven't opened up the Tele yet. I'll get back to you about that later.
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Post by Rockin' Teddy on Nov 16, 2014 22:01:05 GMT
Nope, not going to
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Post by Recycled Rock Chick on Nov 17, 2014 3:46:01 GMT
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Post by guitarphil on Nov 18, 2014 17:18:49 GMT
I think I remember reading somewhere (I sound kinda vague don't I ) that in the early days pickups were wound according to time, not number of turns, so there'd be a lot of variation from one pickup to the next. Phil.
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Post by twang46 on Nov 18, 2014 18:26:45 GMT
I've heard that as well Phil Also they used to weigh samples of the pickups run to make sure they were all the same Good old days eh
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Post by guitarphil on Nov 18, 2014 19:20:52 GMT
Yep, Dick, and it makes me wonder what the point is of reverse engineering a particular pickup and how far do they go to do that - I hope they don't unwind it to see how many turns it had!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 19:26:59 GMT
that's one of the reason that some vintage pick ups sound good and some crap
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